IRC/Gathering-2012-12-30

This is a transcript of the IRC gathering on December 30th, 2012.

Present: cesullivan, gnattery, MissKat, Skud.

(17:00:32) gnattery: Hey all (17:00:39) cesullivan: Hello all (17:01:43) cesullivan: Hi gnattery. (17:01:56) cesullivan: Where are you from? I'm in Seattle (17:02:24) gnattery: I guess we should wait a few minutes and then get this meeting started (17:02:30) gnattery: I'm in Melbourne :) (17:02:34) cesullivan: yes (17:11:28) cesullivan: Are people usually on time if they are going to attend? (17:12:32) gnattery: I think o (17:12:53) gnattery: I think so, but I haven't been to many of these (17:13:13) gnattery: is there anything that you wanted to talk about? (17:13:17) cesullivan: how long have you been working on this project? (17:13:32) gnattery: Hmm, almost a month I think (17:13:40) cesullivan: I just wanted to find out more about the project and how pairing works (17:13:45) gnattery: oh cool (17:14:19) gnattery: how involved are you in it so far? (17:15:10) cesullivan: I got ruby and rails installed on my machine and I've cloned the Growstuff website. I have my own dev copy!  Haven't done any coding (17:15:16) cesullivan: how about you? (17:15:54) gnattery: I've paired a few times with Skud in person, since we live in the same city (17:15:58) cesullivan: I've mucked around a small bit on the webpage and have read the email that had come on the email list (17:16:16) gnattery: *nods* (17:16:22) cesullivan: Skud was in this chat room the first time I checked it out (17:16:54) cesullivan: have you done much Rails programming? (17:17:14) Skud: o hai (17:17:23) Skud: sorry, distracted! (17:17:25) gnattery: not very much, no, pretty much just what I've been doing since I joined. I went to railscamp last year, but I mostly just hung out with people. (17:17:26) Skud: #meetingfail (17:17:32) gnattery: that's ok :) (17:18:06) cesullivan: that's OK. (17:18:06) Skud: gnattery: was that the railscamp in adelaide? (17:18:09) gnattery: yeah (17:18:22) Skud: *nodnod* (17:18:24) gnattery: the water is as bad as everyone says (17:18:36) gnattery: I took a sip and spat it out of the second story window (17:18:47) cesullivan: so, should we mention the other folks so they wake up? (17:19:06) Skud: sometimes doesn't hurt ;) (17:19:07) gnattery: I figure if they've got stuff they want to talk about they'll be here (17:19:37) Skud: _janem annalee dukeleto emililix JennyST koivula maco randomling scrdcow shadowspar … gathering time if you're interested! (17:19:38) cesullivan: I can't tell you might rally be here and who might just be signed on. (17:20:40) Skud: i just tweeted, which usually reminds a few people (17:20:53) Skud: i'm not sure what time this is for people though. might be an awkward one. it's 6am in the UK, i know that. (17:21:02) Skud: so that makes it late evening in the US, right? (17:21:08) gnattery: oh yeah, twitter, I'm trying to do that now (17:21:19) gnattery: I think so? (17:21:29) cesullivan: 10 p.m. well, 10:25 p.m.  not too late (17:22:13) cesullivan: I think I'm following via Twitter. not too helpful since I'm never looking at Twitter (17:22:16) Skud: 1am on the east coast though. (17:22:46) Skud: anyway, yeah, depending on the timing sometimes there are half a dozen people here for gathering, sometimes none (17:24:11) cesullivan: how many people involved in the project? (17:25:25) Skud: there are around 50 on the mailing list (17:25:38) Skud: ooh, 61 apparently (17:25:43) Skud: ok, around 60 :) (17:25:50) Skud: not all are active at all times, though (17:26:21) cesullivan: especially with the holidaze (17:26:31) Skud: there's usually around half a dozen people coding on any given iteration, give or take (17:26:47) Skud: plus a couple of customers (17:28:01) cesullivan: I have my environment set up and I've cloned the software. So, do I just look at something I might be interested in and ask for someone to pair? (17:28:27) Skud: yes more or less! we're actually at the end of a coding period right now, and the next few days will be spent integrating everything, and doing a quick retrospective. (17:28:42) Skud: but around about thursday, there should be an email asking for people to raise their hands if they're interested in coding on this iteration (17:28:52) Skud: and whoever's coaching will help those people pair up (17:29:11) cesullivan: I'll look for email on Thursday. what time is it where you all are? (17:29:11) Tansy1: It's nearly half past six in the morning, cesullivan. (17:29:19) Skud: shhh, tansy (17:29:24) Skud: tansy's running on UTC (17:29:38) Skud: tansy, you are also running on UTC (17:29:55) Skud: tansy1, you are also running on UTC (17:29:55) Tansy1: okay, Skud. (17:30:03) Skud: why have you changed nicks, anyway? stupid bot. (17:30:34) gnattery: haha, every time I come in here you're insulting tansy. poor tansy. (17:31:25) cesullivan: so, is it 6:30 a.m. in Melbourne? (17:32:01) Skud: no, 5:30pm (17:32:05) cesullivan: I have to get a little gadget to help me with the time zones. (17:32:09) Skud: UTC is greenwich mean time, basically (17:32:12) Skud: so that's the time in the UK (17:33:21) Tansy1 left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (17:33:28) cesullivan: I though UTC was UK time but I haven't figured the time shift to Melbourne (or Seattle for that matter). I have enough trouble with US East Coast and US West Coast. :) (17:33:42) Tansy [~Tansy@i-46-149-22-40.compute.is-1.greenqloud.com] entered the room. (17:33:46) Skud: melbourne's usually +10 but right now we're on summer time so it's +11 (17:34:53) Skud: cesullivan: have you looked at PT and thought at all about things you'd like to work on? (17:36:16) cesullivan: I haven't looked at PT too closely. I had wanted to look at the one where non-verified users are showing up in the user list but email chatter looks like it may have been done. (17:36:38) cesullivan: I need to get a better overview of the whole app before I look at what changes I might want to work on. (17:36:51) Skud: yup, it's been done (17:37:20) Skud: cesullivan: what can we do to help you get oriented and know what's what? (17:39:03) cesullivan: Skud: I guess a good way is to actually pick a little task and go for it.  How does pair programming work with people working all over the place? (17:39:41) Skud: cesullivan: mostly people use skype or similar chat programs, and a screensharing program. there's lots of info here: http://wiki.growstuff.org/index.php/Pairing (17:40:49) Skud: cesullivan: they set up an appointment to pair, then both get online at the same time and spend usually ~2 hours working. sometimes more or less. (17:40:52) cesullivan: OK. I was busy setting up my environment. I hadn't gotten to reading that page yet. (17:41:47) gnattery: it's cool :) (17:41:52) cesullivan: I did set up an account on growstuff and added a blog post. I need to see how it works now but I do know that things will be changing.  what is on the list for the next iteration (17:42:01) Skud: cesullivan: i saw your post there :) (17:42:20) Skud: cesullivan: pivotal tracker shows you what's on the list for upcoming iterations: http://tracker.growstuff.org/ (17:42:37) Skud: it can change fairly rapidly though, and people are allowed to pick later stories if they're not enthused by any near the top of the list (17:42:51) cesullivan: I am interested in hydrophonic gardens. No dirt! (17:42:58) Skud: gnattery: it would be good to get you pairing with someone else this iteration, if you're up for it (17:43:12) gnattery: yeah, miles said he'd like to pair with me (17:43:33) Skud: cool, he's great to pair with (17:43:41) gnattery: I'm a bit nervous tbh, there's a lot I don't know and you carry me through it (17:44:03) Skud: heh, i only figured it out recently, and so did miles (17:44:09) Skud: none of us used rails before this (17:44:16) cesullivan: Ah, I see the future things. I hadn't scrolled though the column with the backlog. Miles was very helpful when I was having trouble with installing Ruby (17:44:28) Skud: pozorvlak++ (17:44:47) gnattery: oh, ok, I assumed you were already familiar with rails (17:44:55) Skud: oh hell no! (17:45:02) Skud: i had done a tutorial once, in about 2007 (17:45:12) cesullivan: he has a good sense of humor too. even if he does like haggis. (17:45:18) gnattery: D: (17:45:21) Skud: and i worked my way through about half that ruby pickaxe book (albeit an earlier edition) in like 2001 (17:45:33) gnattery: *nods* (17:45:41) gnattery: I've started working my way through it now :) (17:45:44) Skud: most of us are rails newbs, actually. (17:46:05) gnattery: got halted somewhat early because my computer doesn't want to seem to set things up right (17:46:09) Skud: mostly we've done tutorials and have the general gist of it, but only a handful of people have ever worked on a "real" rails project before this one. (17:46:09) cesullivan: Skud: have you done web programming? I haven't really done any (17:46:40) Skud: cesullivan: yes, i've done web programming for more than a decade. used to be a perl web developer, pretty senior etc. so though i haven't done rails i have done a lot of web app stuff in general. (17:47:01) cesullivan: sweet.  I am interested in a "real" rails project.  and food security is very important. (17:47:17) Skud: cesullivan: are you familiar with HTML markup? and are you familiar with the HTTP protocol and how web servers work? (17:48:06) cesullivan: I've been doing cobol and only training in rails, .net (and now python) (17:48:11) Skud: *nod* (17:48:45) Skud: would you like my 3 minute "how web apps work" tutorial/rant? (17:48:49) cesullivan: I've takend a few classes in HTML and CSS. I have a general idea of how servers work. (17:49:06) cesullivan: Skud: sure (17:49:09) Skud: :) (17:49:10) gnattery: yeah, me too (17:49:13) Skud: heee (17:49:20) Skud: ok, well, you have a web server, and you have a web browser (17:49:27) Skud: browser says: "GET index.html" (17:49:46) Skud: server says "here you go! *bleeeerrrrfff*" and vomits up a static HTML file, which the browser displays (17:50:12) Skud: browser says: "GET /crops/all" (17:50:52) Skud: now the web server's config says that anything under /crops (or whatever) isn't static HTML, but is code that should be run through whatever interpreter. in our case, ruby on rails. (17:51:02) cesullivan: Skud: be sure to copy your rant and edit it into a file... (17:51:20) Skud: so it executes the thing in question (/crops/all) as if calling it on the command line. the output, to STDERR, is a mess of HTML (17:51:21) gnattery: complete with sound effects. they (17:51:24) Skud: eerrr (17:51:24) gnattery: they're important. (17:51:25) Skud: to STDOUT (17:51:35) Skud: here is a simple CGI script, for instance: (17:51:40) Skud: (in perl) (17:51:51) Skud: print "Content-type: text/html\n\n" (17:51:59) cesullivan: right,STDOUT. I do know some Unix (17:52:13) Skud: print " Hello, world  " (17:52:15) Skud: (done) (17:52:41) MissKat [~MissKat@host-193-185-220-24.midco.net] entered the room. (17:52:42) MissKat left the room (quit: Changing host). (17:52:42) MissKat [~MissKat@dreamwidth/delegate/zarhooie] entered the room. (17:52:47) Skud: that is a fully functioning web app. if you requested it from the server, and the server was configured to know to run it as a web app, it would generate that HTML and then the server would send it back to the browser. (17:53:07) Skud: so all Growstuff is is a more complicated version of that (17:53:21) Skud: where we've broken out a whole pile of OO code to represent data in our database (17:53:25) Skud: (aka models) (17:53:43) Skud: and other code to represent how to handle various requests (17:53:51) Skud: and other code as HTML templates (17:53:53) cesullivan: Rails is pretty good with the MVC thing (17:53:57) Skud: (controllers and views, respectively) (17:54:03) cesullivan: Magic! (17:54:14) Skud: basically all we are doing is generating HTML, in a rather complicated way (17:54:36) MissKat: Fancy way. You're doing it in a fancy way. (17:54:52) Skud: and that is my 3 minute intro to web apps. they are not all that complicated really. (17:54:58) cesullivan: Fancy! (17:55:03) Skud: MissKat: that's what the rails people would like you to think ;) (17:55:11) MissKat: FANCY. (17:55:19) MissKat: Pinkies out, everyone! It's time to code! (17:55:32) gnattery: cesullivan: just so you know, the weekly meetings are recorded on the wiki, so you can go look up the tutorial/rant whenever you want :) (17:55:36) Skud: the thing about rails, which you might have picked up from their PR crap, is that they are big on "convention" (17:55:39) cesullivan: MissKat: Hello! I'm Cathy and I live in Seattle, WA, USA (17:56:05) cesullivan: Skud: thanks for the 3 minute server overview (17:56:12) MissKat: Hi! I'm Kat, I live in the midwest, USA, and I'm up waaaa past my bedtime. :) (17:56:21) Skud: "convention" in rails talk just means, "look, we've been deveoping web apps for a while, and we reckon we know what we're doing, so we'll just put all the code in the places we like it to be, and make you do it that way, BECAUSE IT IS GOOD FOR YOU." (17:56:52) gnattery: This is consistent with my experience with Rails people. (17:57:01) Skud: yeah, inorite? (17:57:14) gnattery: The free drinks were good though. (17:57:23) Skud: so you kind of have to adjust your head to fit their way of doing things, but if you do, you will find it relatively smooth sailing. (17:57:49) MissKat: Consistency is good, both in custard and in code. (17:57:59) cesullivan: And, the rail magic commands put files in specific places (17:59:10) Skud: yeah (17:59:16) Skud: BECAUSE IT IS GOOD FOR YOU (17:59:56) cesullivan: MissKat: what is your role in this project? I hope to help with the code and it is nice to meet someone only a few time zones away (18:00:40) MissKat: I am the peanut gallery! (18:01:01) MissKat: Actually, I'm kind of a consultant, I guess? I have no idea. I like to play in dirt and eat food. (18:01:09) Skud: you're a grower (18:01:10) MissKat: I also work for Dreamwidth. (18:01:19) Skud: she does! (18:01:21) MissKat: not a shower! (18:01:25) Skud: she is the queen of support over there. (18:01:28) Skud: MissKat: HA (18:01:28) MissKat: muahahaha (18:01:37) Skud: MissKat: we had a WHOLE MAILING LIST THREAD about that (18:02:07) Skud: MissKat: which is why we refer to people who use the website as "members". which is also kind of an innuendo but less brainwormy. (18:02:10) MissKat: omg best project ever. (18:02:26) gnattery: oh god (18:02:43) MissKat: Welp, I guess I am just going to start calling myself Midas, because all the projects I'm involved with are awesome. (18:03:17) cesullivan: iI may need to look at that mailing list thread. About what? Playing in the dirt? (18:03:27) Skud: about "growers and showers" (18:03:41) Skud: it's on this page: http://lists.growstuff.org/pipermail/discuss/2012-November/thread.html (18:03:49) Skud: [Growstuff] [general] users/profile/people/customers/members terminology (18:04:13) gnattery: I'm working with a bunch of 12 year olds :P (18:04:57) Skud: you are. (18:05:14) MissKat: Hey, I';m at LEAST 13. (18:05:38) Skud: i *try* to stay decent around here, but i will admit it's a battle (18:05:40) cesullivan: working? what word? (18:05:51) cesullivan: work? (18:06:55) Skud: there's work! *shifty eyes* (18:07:00) Skud: ok maybe not around here this week (18:08:10) MissKat: >_> (18:08:15) Skud: after new year there will be some work. (18:08:20) MissKat: yes! (18:08:21) MissKat: Work! (18:08:32) Skud: you know, for an iteration full of holidays, we got a buttload done this last few weeks (18:08:34) MissKat: Work is for working and is good because then things happen and then we can play in dirt. (18:08:48) cesullivan: I mean, this here conversation is not work, it is more "play" (18:09:09) gnattery: It isn't? (18:09:13) Skud: honestly, i'd like to blur the line between those two (18:09:16) gnattery: I've been doing things so wrong (18:09:18) MissKat: I firmly believe that team socializing is a crucial work-thing. (18:09:21) cesullivan: MissKat: I'm interested in hydroponics because there is no dirt (18:09:23) Skud: hear hear (18:09:37) Skud: that was hear hear to socializing. though hydroponics are also awesome. (18:10:00) MissKat: People who are friendly with each other are going to work better with one another than people who are isolated in their cubes. (18:10:01) gnattery: I'm interested in coding because there is no outside :P (18:10:15) gnattery: I seem to have managed to get a big dose of outside anyway (18:10:22) MissKat: Coding in your cube is fine too, gnattery! (18:10:31) cesullivan: gnattery: No outside? (18:10:33) gnattery: nah, I know some outside is god for me (18:10:34) gnattery: *good (18:10:47) Skud: gnattery: THERE WILL BE OUTSIDE BREAKS WHEN YOU COME ROUND HERE (18:11:01) gnattery: yeah, they do help a lot (18:11:05) Skud: gnattery: you still have to see the choko that sprouted! (18:11:18) gnattery: oohh yes, how's it doing? (18:11:21) cesullivan: choko? (18:11:31) gnattery: australian poop plant, apparently. (18:11:33) cesullivan: I guess I could google it.. (18:11:34) Skud: cesullivan: chayote (18:11:45) Skud: IS NOT POOP PLANT (18:11:48) gnattery: XD (18:11:58) Skud: it's just traditionally grown climbing over the outdoor toilet (18:12:05) cesullivan: OK, that was helpful (not). Peppers? (18:12:10) gnattery: (poop plant) (18:12:12) Skud: cesullivan: err, google it! (18:12:32) Skud: cesullivan: chayote is the latin-american name and was what i saw used in california when i lived there (18:13:13) Skud: cesullivan: it's a vine that grows green pear-shaped fruit that are kind of bland a bit like zucchini. (18:13:49) gnattery: like a cross between zucchini and eggplant (18:13:54) Skud: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chayote (18:14:06) Skud: apparently it's a type of gourd, which means it's related to squash (18:14:32) cesullivan: It doesn't look like there is an English name for it. And Latin-American? No, try Hispanic. (18:14:54) Skud: the australian english name for it is "choko". (18:14:56) cesullivan: I look POOP plant (18:15:40) cesullivan: I mean, I like POOP plant (18:16:08) Skud: hrmph! (18:16:20) cesullivan: I've never lived in a desert climate (18:16:55) gnattery: nothing against your choko Skud, all plants are technically poop plants :P (18:17:33) Skud: gah i hate when i see things like this: (18:17:38) Skud: The plant in general is finicky to grow. However, in Australia and New Zealand, it is an easily grown yard or garden plant, set on a chicken wire support or strung against a fence. (18:17:58) Skud: by which i think they mean, "The plant is finicky to grow IN MY PART OF NORTH AMERICA." (18:18:00) cesullivan: Is choko tasty? I may have seen them in the super market or farmers' market (18:18:23) Skud: pretty bland (18:18:46) Skud: i'm just growing it because why not? we have a fence, they're easy to grow here, may as well have something growing up the fence. (18:18:59) Skud: i think i'll plant some jasmine too. also unkillable in this climate. (18:19:17) gnattery: ahh, I miss having jasmine on the fence (18:19:17) cesullivan: I'll have to look at the kind of data you are collecting for the gardens. location is important. (18:19:47) Skud: cesullivan: we're not collecting much yet, but the plan is to collect data from individuals as they plant and grow things, and then aggregate and present that (18:20:06) gnattery: location will be part of that *nods* (18:20:15) Skud: cesullivan: and to be very location-aware, so that eg. if i'm in australia, it tells me "choko is easy to grow" (WHICH IT IS) whereas for misskat it would be "finicky" or whatever (18:21:12) cesullivan: and things like wether a spot is sunny or in a micro-climate like near a hill or building (18:21:14) MissKat: Cranky. (18:21:31) MissKat: It would be cranky to grow, I think. (18:21:39) Skud: i think it woudl be sad. (18:21:48) MissKat: Awww don't be sad poor plant (18:21:51) gnattery: website needs a little sadface (18:21:56) MissKat: you can hang out with my poop house (18:22:04) MissKat: I'll build a nice one for youuuu (18:22:12) cesullivan: besides, nothing being planted outside in the Midwest these days. (18:22:43) gnattery: why's that? (18:22:50) Skud: freezing! (18:22:52) cesullivan: Winter (18:23:01) gnattery: oh right. I thought you meant in general. (18:23:29) cesullivan: real winter, not like what we have in Seattle. Not really winter here. (18:23:45) gnattery: winter here is real enough for me (18:23:48) Skud: MissKat: were you drought-affected? (18:26:18) MissKat: Sort of? (18:26:37) MissKat: My basil and sage refused to grow, full-stop (18:27:03) MissKat: My tomatoes were fine once I got them started, but they were more leggy than I usually see them (but I'm in a new place this year, so maybe that's normal for them here?) (18:27:19) MissKat: And my ornamentals were drought-hardy to begin with, so they did fine. (18:27:27) MissKat: My rosemary did brilliantly, for some reason. (18:27:33) Skud: they like it a bit dry (18:27:35) MissKat: Got to be abt 2 feet tall (18:28:58) cesullivan: rosemary grows all year round here (18:29:06) ***MissKat is jealous (18:29:14) MissKat: It's my favorite herb, full-stop (18:29:35) cesullivan: I don't really like it. (18:30:09) gnattery: it's good for roast veggies, but I don't really know what else it's for (18:30:17) Skud: we have these epic rosemary bushes by our tram stop. as tall as i am and maybe 5m across. (18:30:31) cesullivan: it is in sausage. (18:30:51) Skud: gnattery: i'll have to feed you my amazing turkish lentil soup with rosemary and lemon and wilted spinach. (18:30:58) gnattery: ooh (18:31:02) gnattery: I am ok with this (18:31:18) Skud: :) anytime. it is totally a pantry soup apart from a couple of things. (18:31:29) Skud: speaking of pantry, i really ought to go deal with some stuff (18:31:39) Skud: like canning those apricots i bought yesterday (18:31:53) cesullivan: bed time for me. Nice to speak to all of you. (18:32:04) Skud: it's been a nice chill gathering. thanks everyone! (18:33:28) gnattery: cya! (18:33:33) gnattery: hope to see you around :) (18:33:45) cesullivan left the room (quit: Quit: Page closed). (18:40:34) MissKat: gnattery: rosemary is good paired with pork (18:40:47) MissKat: and also with fatty poultry cuts (chicken thighs and so on) (18:40:54) gnattery: that's true. it's good for roasted things in general. (18:42:02) MissKat: My favorite roast as of late has been some cut of pork (usually shoulder, sometimes butt roast), a bundle of rosemary, thyme, and sage, salt/pepper, and some hard cider (18:42:33) MissKat: Brown the roast on all sides in an enamel pot, deglaze the pan with the cider, bring to a simmer with the herbs, then re-add the pork. (18:42:52) MissKat: Bake at 325 for a few hours, or until it's fall-apart gorgeous (18:43:12) MissKat: then eat with mashed turnips and a big mug of cold cider (18:43:13) MissKat: yummm (18:44:20) MissKat: And with that, I'm going to head bedwards myself. I hope everyone has a lovely $timeofday!